Logopond

Congratulations helvetic brands on being the first user to upload 1000 logos, what a machine!

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raja said on Feb. 06 '10

"Raja - previous logo seen here ":http://logopond.com/gallery/detail/848

Mikeymike said on Feb. 06 '10

awesome!!! fantastic raja.

siah-design said on Feb. 06 '10

Nice - has more emotion/personality now. Love it

michaelspitz said on Feb. 06 '10

Hot stuff Raja! ;)
*Think I can I get a slight bump on the ® weight?

siah-design said on Feb. 06 '10

And btw, your tattoo should look like this one anyway when you flex...

JF said on Feb. 06 '10

This is a fluid design, great work!

logomotive said on Feb. 06 '10

Right on Bro. Nice improvement. Would also make a great tattoo wrap kinda tribalish.

milou said on Feb. 06 '10

very good.

Bitencourt said on Feb. 06 '10

Ambigraaammsss :)

Very very nice, Raja!

sandhya said on Feb. 06 '10

i somehow like the previous one better. but i guess to each his own :)

epsilon said on Feb. 06 '10

^ this one is more elaborate execution of a more elaborate concept. I am with you though, I too like previous one better.

mcdseven said on Feb. 06 '10

ah damn, like the previous one better, far superior, sorry.

brandsimplicity said on Feb. 06 '10

Rajaness...loving it!

firebrand said on Feb. 06 '10

rajaplex.

ClimaxDesigns said on Feb. 06 '10

Ive always wanted to ask how come the j looks like an e? rotate 45 degrees?

kathariney said on Feb. 06 '10

this is very nice too, although my vote is on the previous design :)
both makes me want to grab a pencil and start solving the maze...

chrisrojo said on Feb. 07 '10

yeah i'm whit the first, but this one is great too!

OcularInk said on Feb. 08 '10

Man, I actually prefer the original one as well. This new version being stretched and all seems forced to me. That might just be because I'm so used to the original. Also, this is not a true ambigram. Have to call you out on that one! =P

Type08 said on Feb. 08 '10

I am also in the group of peeps that support previous mark. Not only that curved maize hurts the eyes in a way, but Raja was hard enough to read with the previous one and this made it even harder... Find a person who haven't heard of you (it will be hard, I know, but there are a few) and if that person reads Raja within 30sec, I'll give him/her a $100, straight up. Wait a sec, make that $1000... :)

kathariney said on Feb. 08 '10

>Wait a sec, make that $1000... :)
That's bold, Alen.

kaimere said on Feb. 08 '10

Hey Alen where shall i send my address for my cheque ? ;)

Type08 said on Feb. 08 '10

LOL Kai
Alen Pavlovic, Domzalska 4, 48000 Koprivnica, Croatia
But that's only if you didn't hear of Raja before ;)

kaimere said on Feb. 08 '10

raja who ?

Type08 said on Feb. 08 '10

Fair enough! LOL
Send me the info, you just won a $1000!

raja said on Feb. 08 '10

Thank you for lookin! I really appreciate the feedback.

- Mikeymike, thank you

- Josiah (siah-design), thank you, and lol@flexing

- michaelspitz, thank you, good point abut the ®, thing is, I actually used the legal vector they provide you when you register a logo, didn't think to adjust it, but it would look better

- JF, thank you

- Mike (logomotive) thanks brother

- milou, thank you

- Bitencourt, thank you

- sandhya, thank you, maybe the previous one is better?.. I just felt I had to reflect my change and growth

- epsilon, thank you

- mcdeven, thank you, that's why I posted here, for your opinions

- Fabian (brandsimplicity), thank you

- Roy (firebrand), thank you, odeon lol

- David (climaxdesigns), thank you, good question, the design is far from perfect, to some the J jumps out, to others, maybe an E, as far as rotating, that would mean a complete re-design, maybe in another couple of years :D

- kathariney, thank you, I suppose when compared, one will be more liked, that's the law. If it makes you want to grab a pencil, well that's a good thing for a designer!

- chrisrojo, thank you, looks like the other one gets another vote so to say

- onetreeink, thank you

- Kevin (OcularInk), thank you, glad you had a fine toothed comb :D The term ambigram is an ambiguity in itself having spoken to the gentleman who coined it, but it's not the typical ambigram as in a symmetrical reverse read, so I'm gonna still call it one haha

- Alen (Type08), thank you, I sort of want it to be hard to read (if, at all), the aim is to just have it recognizable. Save your $1000, no one is going to be able to read that LOL, and of the 10 people that know me, they still can't!

- kaimere, thank you, I think I forgot my shades at your place (save your money Alen haha)

I honestly appreciate you all for looking and leaving your comments, as I am fan of your work.

eziemac said on Feb. 08 '10

I'm sure you could get some sort of skin tuck to fix the tattoo ;)

Cheers for the comment on my website btw :)

kathariney said on Feb. 08 '10

raja, in fact the first time i saw your logo, it's the one with "amaze" underneath, so i was trying to hard to read the letter"m-a-z-e" out of it....than i thought , maybe it's just a drawing that looks like a maze. i was like "oh , cool, an amazing maze." lol

cobaltcow said on Feb. 08 '10

I think as a stand-alone mark its cool, I really like the feel, but think it would really need to be accompanied by the text (for people who don't already know what it says).

Don't get me wrong, it's awesome, but without some help people aren't going to be able to read it.

Having said that I think you could easily just go by 'Raja Creative' or something like that now that its the core of your brand anyway.

Being picky but it's not an ambigram (oh, just noticed Kevin already got you there).

ClimaxDesigns said on Feb. 08 '10

I see the small j shape, but if i squint my eyes the overall shape looks like an e that's why i asked lol

brandsimplicity said on Feb. 08 '10

Yes, its very hard to read...but that's the point. Great branding is something that can stop you in your tracks and make you think...WTF...am I looking at.

logomotive said on Feb. 08 '10

PLUS it's Raja's logos and he knows what he's doing, well I think he does.

raja said on Feb. 08 '10

I'm not saying it's writing, more of an abstraction of Raja... you know, a device, an icon.

- eziemac, thanks ha, yes I could and your site looks great

- kathariney, sorry to confuse you :( hope you made your way out, it's an easy one

- cobaltcow, thank you too, may sound absurd, but again not really looking for anyone to read it, in it's various touchpoints, it will not really require legibility you know what I mean? And about the ambigram, I am still going to stand my ground and say it is! (see reply to Kevin)

- ClimaxDesigns, thanks for clarifying, why you squintin in the first place lol

- brandsimplicity, thank you, glad you can't read it either, bingo! good points...

- logomotive, it's all a front! I wouldn't come here for help if I did

Kliment said on Feb. 09 '10

heheh great!

raja said on Feb. 11 '10

Thank you Kliment. I just got word that this logo was selected for publication in the new "LogoNest Book":http://www.logonest.com/2010/02/raja/

nido said on Feb. 11 '10

linen...

firebrand said on Feb. 11 '10

Do you know who's behind this LogoNest?

nido said on Feb. 11 '10

^not really... but you could always ask type08... he's a big contributer...

firebrand said on Feb. 11 '10

Aha. Type has his fingers in a lot of pies.

Type08 said on Feb. 11 '10

Yummy! ;)

logoholik said on Feb. 11 '10

I believe it is Sinisa and his crew, who also run Logo from dreams...

Type08 said on Feb. 11 '10

Yes, exactly, I only write weekly articles on logo design there, that is the only tie with the crew... By the way, stop by tomorrow for the new one... C yah!
Type08

firebrand said on Feb. 11 '10

OK cheers. Slick site.

nido said on Feb. 11 '10

...and "his":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=banXT6azA-4 work here was done...

raja said on Mar. 29 '10

they say logsholiks are actually very smart

raja said on Mar. 29 '10

*logoholiks

logopunk said on May. 07 '10

Love it, but must admit to preferring the original (at least I assume that other one is the original)

raja said on May. 10 '10

yes, the other one is the first, this is one is for a different purpose, thanks logopunk

logotivity said on Jul. 29 '10

i like this alot, i would rock this on a tee shirt ..

raja said on Aug. 05 '10

awsm - getting apparel done up - thanks!

ericneal said on Aug. 06 '10

I like both the original and this updated logo, seeing how this one still works very well with the curves just shows the strength and attention to detail within the mark itself. great work raja!

tass said on Aug. 06 '10

Hey Raja, nice step forward! :) I think it looks more friendly now. Cool thing it's an ambigram too. :)

JoePrince said on Aug. 06 '10

^It's not an ambigram Alex...

raja said on Aug. 06 '10

Yes it is Joe. And that comes from one of the pioneers of the 'ambigram' , my great friend "John Langdon":http://www.johnlangdon.net/ambigrams/ << click

Thanks for stopping in with your expert opinion though.

JoePrince said on Aug. 06 '10

Here you go Raja, take a look at this: "click":http://a.imageshack.us/img819/7788/8l2idn02.jpg
Sorry bud, not an ambigram.

ericneal said on Aug. 06 '10

I have to agree with joe, but it doesn't have to be an ambigram to be a good logo!

nido said on Aug. 06 '10

_"An ambigram is a typographical design or artform that may be **read** as one or more words not only in its form as presented, but also from another viewpoint, direction, or orientation. "_

That's taken from wikipedia in regards to what an _ambigram_ is. There is no mention of the shape having to be the same from viewpoint, direction, or orientation... and to me at least... this reads as "raja" from all viewpoints you presented JoePrince... so in conclusion... it **is** an ambigram.

sorry bud.

JoePrince said on Aug. 06 '10

Sorry nido, it does not read 'raja' from the different viewpoints. Thanks for the uneducated insight you have anyway :)

nido said on Aug. 06 '10

it does to me... hence "... and to me at least... this reads as "raja" from all viewpoints you presented JoePrince... so in conclusion... it is an ambigram."... so it is an ambigram... to me.

Guess that makes it your uneducated insight v mine?

nido said on Aug. 06 '10

ps.. I love how you girls get so sensitive... lol

JoePrince said on Aug. 06 '10

It reads 'raja' to you from each viewpoint because you have seen the original design before, bud. Just because it is an ambigram to *you* doesn't mean it is in fact one. You capeesh?

nido said on Aug. 06 '10

this is to no one in general... but if you are willing to accept it reads "raja" in its original form.. then it is no stretch of the imagination to read "raja" in any other form... it just depends on imagination (or lack there of) and the willingness to accept (as you have done in its original form)

nothing to get educated about.

_Imagination is more important than knowledge._
Einstein

logomotive said on Aug. 06 '10

I don't care what any of you say, when I see this upside down,backwards, forwards, reversed out, or on the side of a DVD spline, I know it's Rajas logo :)

JoePrince said on Aug. 06 '10

I find it amusing how you always have to step in and protect your little boy toy Raja. You never let me down nido.

nido said on Aug. 06 '10

^I thought it was a discussion about ambigrams?... are you feeling hurt JoePrince?.. want me to be your buddy too?

JoePrince said on Aug. 06 '10

Nah, I don't like to be buddies with pricks. Appreciate the offer though.

logomotive said on Aug. 06 '10

I mean Spine. sorry just trying to change the direction.

nido said on Aug. 06 '10

"Nah, I don't like to be buddies with pricks."... aawww... you really are hurting ain ya?... sorry to have spoiled your night... I hope you feel better in the morning.

Still an ambigram.

nido said on Aug. 06 '10

@logomotive... lol!

JoePrince said on Aug. 06 '10

Spoiled my night? Hardly. Just glad I don't see douche bags like you outside of LogoPond.
Btw, is your avatar an ambigram nido?

nido said on Aug. 06 '10

oh cool... for a moment you came across like you were crying... but im glad you dont get outside logopond much...

anyway... to answer your question (glad to see we are back on the subject of ambigrams) No. My avatar is not an ambigram. im(uneducated)o

JoePrince said on Aug. 06 '10

Of course you're uneducated, hence why you thought I was crying. While we're talking about your avatar, what inspired you to come up with something so brilliant? Guess it matches your personality.

nido said on Aug. 06 '10

because I didnt go college means I would never be able to tell when I think someones crying?... wow.. they have a class for that?

Anyway... we're not talking about my avatar... the discussion is about ambigrams... and I already answered your question about my avatar being an ambigram... and proved that this logo is indeed an ambigram... why are you deflecting the issue?... do they not teach at school how to stick to the subject?

JoePrince said on Aug. 06 '10

Never cared much for school nido :) We've already discussed that raja's logo is not an ambigram. Thanks for the conversation mate.

nido said on Aug. 06 '10

you're welcome. but for what its worth, I was discussing that it is an ambigram. So lets just agree to disagree. As I said before.. until an ambigram expert chimes in with their worth.. it's your uneducated opinion v mine.

Enjoy your weekend.

JoePrince said on Aug. 06 '10

Quick question for you, what makes your opinion more educated than mine?

nido said on Aug. 06 '10

as long as you stay on the subject im happy to oblige...

I wouldnt say my opinion is more educated than yours... but I made an (even if it was a slight) effort to explain what an ambigram was/is... my only source, granted, was wikipedia, some frown upon that... but a source nonetheless that backed my view... further to that I argued that it (to no great stretch of the imagination) does still read as "raja" in your presentation... based on the willingness to accept the original...

My question to you would be, why are you (and what evidence do you have - based on what source) saying its _not_ an ambigram?... keeping in mind what ive already stated.

JoePrince said on Aug. 06 '10

A true ambigram maintains readability either by reflection or rotation. In this case, it fails to adhere to either, thus meaning it is not an ambigram.

andreiu said on Aug. 06 '10

a fact is certain guys: nido's avatar is more than an ambigram, in fact.. it's a multigram. (:
you can flip it in more than 2 ways to get the same visuals.

JoePrince said on Aug. 06 '10

^But does it work in B&W Andrei? :P

nido said on Aug. 06 '10

"A true ambigram maintains readability either by reflection or rotation."... is that your opinion?.. or are you getting that from somewhere?... it would add more value if you were able to back it up...

but i'll humour you.. lets start at its original form... we have all accepted it reads "raja" when in fact.. it dont :)... but we accept that it does... because.. well... we do... the "readability" here is based on acceptance of shapes and their form... not letters... because there are no letters... so when flipped/mirrored etc it is of no consequence to the shape and their forms... it still, by the very same suspension of belief we have for the original, reads as "raja"... hence, making it an ambigram...

andreiu said on Aug. 06 '10

^ well Joe, at least as you can see, it works perfect in color! :))

JoePrince said on Aug. 06 '10

Rotational
A design that presents several instances of words when rotated through a fixed angle. This is usually 180 degrees, but rotational ambigrams of other angles exist, for example 90 or 45 degrees. The word spelled out from the alternative direction(s) is often the same, but may be a different word to the initally presented form.

Mirror
A design that will read the same when reflected or viewed through a mirror.

Taken from http://www.ambigram.net/ nido. More or less credible from Wikipedia? Who knows.

jerron said on Aug. 06 '10

Does anyone want to be my buddy?

JoePrince said on Aug. 06 '10

@Andrei, haha. Wonder if it passes the scalability test though...

andreiu said on Aug. 06 '10

@Joe: yep, it could even be 1x1px and perfectly mentain all the details :>
@Raja: one of the most recognizable logos i've seen here on LP. great job.

logomotive said on Aug. 06 '10

JoePrince said on Aug. 06 '10

^Is that how it would look on the DVD spine Mike? :)

nido said on Aug. 06 '10

_Rotational
A design that presents several instances of words when rotated through a fixed angle. This is usually 180 degrees, but rotational ambigrams of other angles exist, for example 90 or 45 degrees. The word spelled out from the alternative direction(s) is often the same, but may be a different word to the initally presented form.

Mirror
A design that will read the same when reflected or viewed through a mirror._

and yet **none of this** proves that this is **not** an ambigram... if anything... it proves it is... you still havent acknowledged that you are willing to accept it reads "raja" in its original form but not when flipped or mirrored.. ok.. let me ask you this then... what makes you accept it reads "raja" in its original form?... if at all you do...

as for my avatar (why we are talking about that I have no idea... may be out of desperation) but my avatar is just an avatar, not a word and by no means a logo... its just an avatar... does it need to be more than that?

JoePrince said on Aug. 06 '10

The original form utilizes shapes that represent the letters of Raja. When seen out of its original context, the design loses readability with that order of letters. We can go back and forth all day nido, but in the end neither of us are ambigram experts.
As far as your avatar goes, friendly banter. Lighten up.

nido said on Aug. 06 '10

_neither of us are ambigram experts._

then why say it isnt?... at least I was willing to back up what I said and maintain that it reads raja from all angles. You sound like you concede to me.

As for my avatar... no offence was even taken... feel free to make of it what you will.. i was only explaining that it means nothing...

anyway... I'm off out... have fun all.

ClimaxDesigns said on Aug. 06 '10

Emails have been sent to respective parties, for future reference the back and forth here is a perfect example of how to get temp/perma banned from this site, keep the conversation on topic and polite please.

theartistt said on Aug. 06 '10

Entertaining, yes, but the language got crude from one party (and not the party you would normally suspect). This is an open forum so being crude (and I've been warned when I should have known better) can get you kicked off. This is not an 'adults only' forum. But thanks for the 'education' on ambigrams. In the end they agreed in print (if not in mind) that this does qualify as an ambigram.

I have to say I did not realize this was a redesign. I thought it was the same logo stylized for something in particular. So for me it is no better or worse than the original. The logo works very well for Raja and is executed beautifully. Even though the concept is not unique, Raja somehow made it so.

rudy hurtado said on Aug. 07 '10

Raja, when are you getting the apparel? want one.

ClimaxDesigns said on Aug. 08 '10

"Where are the rules to this site?"

Im not a baby sitter and while i act as such am not the police, I shouldn't nor will I unless something just gets out of hand massively write a coed of conduct for this site, you are all for the most part adults, im not here to shepard you, act like adults and we will all get along swimmingly.

raja said on Aug. 13 '10

Rudy, we will talk soon :D

alterego said on Aug. 17 '10

RAJA A MAZE :) nice modification

raja said on Aug. 26 '10

thanks alterego

Pierro said on Nov. 05 '10

Good work man! great execution...but like the previous! :)

raja said on Nov. 07 '10

thanks -- seems that the previous has more 'likes'

hmm..

raja said on Sep. 07 '11

Just confirming that this is an ambigram.

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